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A fantastic presentation about the need for more diversity in the atheist movement.

Fulfilling my role as purveyor of all things silly on this blog.  Behold:  Good Friday.

Jesus the Cult Leader

Part of this article came from Psychology Today can be www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way   The purpose of this post is to compare Jesus’ ministry and how it stacks up to these elements that can make a cult. 

To Create Your Very Own Cult

1) Begin by creating your own reality. You do this by keeping your members away from outsiders. An isolated farm in the middle of Idaho is good but if such a retreat isn’t available, impose a form of self-censorship. If it’s not of the cult, it’s of the devil.

Mathew 18:21 Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.” 22 But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

This is a harsh statement by Jesus. Let’s consider Jesus’ purpose in saying it. The statement gives a us a glimpse of what  Jesus require of his followers.  Jesus is obviously weeding this man out.   Jesus and his ministry is more important and his mission more important than burring the man’s own father is.  This is not very compassionate, but serves Jesus’ purpose in getting people who will totally sell out to him, and have nothing to lose.  This is a form of isolation.  In addition, the disciples seem to follow Jesus everywhere he went. He called them away from their day jobs to follow him. Jesus’ inner-circle was isolated from their community and families. At least at times, they were not at home for extended periods. Travel is difficult now imagine it without cars, planes, and nice hotels. I think I could safely conclude that Jesus had the disciples to himself. 

Mark 3:31-35

31 Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” 33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. 34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”

Yes, Jesus changes the requirements to be part of his family. Now in order to be a part of his family/circle you must be doing the will of his  ‘Father”. Interesting, that he does this, and I would assume those family members who weren’t on board with him he rejected. Seems to me very odd behavior. But then at the cross he does as Peter is asked to take care of Mary Jesus’ mother. Then again Jesus does still respect certain family traditions. This, passage does reveal how Jesus thinks of his group that is following him around. 

2) Next set the leader and his/her inner circle up as the only link to paradise…only they hold the keys to the kingdom.

Well who could forget this teaching of Jesus.

John 14- 6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known who I am, then you would have known who my Father is.* From now on you know him and have seen him!”

So Jesus has set himself up as the way to God the father. Takes a certain type of person to claim this about themselves. Of course, he has to set his authority up as he will challenge many of the religious leaders of his day. Now that he has told them that he is the way to the Father (God) who in his circle would dare question his teachings. His teachings are now as though coming from God himself. OH wait Christian pretty much believe that and go nuts when you challenge this. So far Jesus is doing pretty well with the 7 easy steps to become a cult leader!  Or at least the writers are setting Jesus up this way.

3) Remember to make increasing demands. Start small but keep it going and eventually you’ll have your followers standing in line to turn over all their worldly possessions.

Now who could forget the command to the rich man to give up all his belongings to the poor. Now I have to say this of Jesus. I don’t see him asking people for personal property or that a like. Seems Jesus lived according to scriptures simple. But we do know that he did have a treasure (Judas) he did accept the woman’s anointing his feet (this was very expensive and supposed to be used for her wedding). While, I’m not trying to paint Jesus as this fraud or anything like this. This story shows how important Jesus is and how people treated him. Almost like royalty.

 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages. b” 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

 

4) Keep turning out stories about the greatness of the leader. The more unbelievable the more they will be believed. Your members have already been conditioned from the time they were children to accept things like coming back from the dead and walking on water.

Well this is pretty self -evident. However, for his day Jesus did claim to be greater than the prophets and Moses. Moses was pretty much the top guy in Judaism so for Jesus to claim this would have been shocking.

5) Remember to use your converts to bring in still more converts. This has the double advantage of picking up new disciples and (even if that doesn’t always work) the mere act of proselytizing will further cement the commitment of those already in the fold.

The great commission! So yes seems Jesus is very interested in spreading his message. And of course we see this in today Christian’s to spread the “good news”. If this wasn’t taught by Jesus obviously we wouldn’t be having this post right now.

18 As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” Matthew 4:18-19

6) Keep everybody busy. This doesn’t allow time for potentially critical thought. Let the minds of the masses wander and who knows, they might put two and two together. For this reason, long sermons - the longer the better - and interminable work shifts are essential. And when you aren’t haranguing them and they aren’t being kept busy…make sure they’re at least singing.

Jesus did preach and teach, but to what extent we do not know. See the crowds that followed Jesus all over, (groupies?), I would say he would have been busy. It doesn’t look like the disciples left him much so I would say they were together a lot and mostly they were following his teaching. Then the text doesn’t say. I think he had them totally wrapped around his finger.  But lets for a moment think about the lack of some of Jesus’ teaching. I don’t see anywhere in the Bible a command to think for yourself, but Jesus was calling people to

1)follow him, 2) believe what he says 3) claims that he has God’s message, ( “if you’ve seen me you’ve see the father”). So I would say that Jesus did not encourage critical thought among his followers to say the least. He also, would get upset with his disciples for a lack of faith many times. Therefore, this really shows that he was pressuring his disciples to believe what he was teaching.  From the NT we only get his followers side of the story. We know that some disciples left  Jesus and we understand what Jesus thought of those people. The NT writers never interview anyone who left Jesus or who opposed Jesus, we never get their side of the story.

 Jesus does yell at the disciples for falling asleep in prayer. Mathew 26:40 and then he came back a second time Mathew 26:45. Of course, this is at the time when Judas is turning Jesus in and Jesus is fritting over his own death. However while I can’t say that Jesus normally kept his disciples up for long hours at a time. This gives a glimpse of his relationship with his followers. He was demanding, never see Jesus request that they pray for him, but he expects them to be praying. I assume either he gives them this task directly or it’s implied.  Would most people today put up with this behavior from a pastor or anyone in leadership? 

 7) And finally, keep your flock fixated on the carrot. The payoff is just around the corner and only they will be the ones paid off. The clouds will part and they will be raptures up and then, boy-oh-boy, won’t all those non-believers be sorry.

So while many Christians have different views on Jesus’ return. He does promise them eternal life in heaven. John 3:15. 2. He does promise that he will come back Matt 24, Mark 13:30- Jesus does promise that he will come back in the clouds before his generation passes away,( its now 2000 years later!) I understand there are many ways to interpret this. But its still Jesus, promises a eternal reward to the disciples for following him. Church traditions shows the disciples followed him even into death. THere is also, taught about suffering for Christ and martyrdom.

Was Jesus a cult leader?  The bible doesn’t have a lot of details of the  relationship between him and his inner circle. So the average day is hard to figure out. But based on the actions of the disciples after his death, I would say yes Jesus was the model cult leader. 1. He had his own reality; he clearly thought that he was the Messiah and was executed for claiming to be the king of the Jews.  He also claimed to be God. . He claimed to speak for God,   2.  He sets himself up as the only link to paradise – No one comes to the Father except though me! 3. Jesus was demanding of his followers, Jesus said if you don’t hate your father your mother, you are not worthy of following me. So he had some pretty strong words for his followers.  4) keep turning out great stories about your leader- Jesus fits this ultimate story. Miracles, healings, stopping storms, raising people from the dead great storys. 5) Remember to use your converts to bring in more- Jesus did send his disciples out to go door by door, and the great commission. While I understand that Christians have different attitudes, its clear Jesus got his message out. 6. Keep everyone busy- I’m sure they did a lot of walking around! No cars in those days! Jesus was demanding of those who followed him. Can’t go to family funeral, give up everything you own to the poor etc. And the disciples seemed to spend a lot of time together.  7. Keep your flocks fixated on the carrot. I think its interesting that Jesus didn’t always tell his disciples what he was up too. But he sure does, tell them about eternal life, and a house he will prepare for his followers. The kingdom of heaven is a major theme as well. Jesus also teaches that the Kingdom is at hand that its partially available to them. So what do you think was Jesus a cult leader.

Regards,

Exrev

Atheists are happy and fulfilled, as much as anyone else. Many of us seem cranky in arguments on the Internet — but that’s because we’re in arguments on the Internet. In the rest of our lives, we have as much satisfaction, contentment, and joy as anybody. Pass it on: if we say it enough times to enough people, it may get across.

A-Day

We’ve spoken amongst ourselves - and with other self-affirming atheists - and we’ve come a consensus.

We need our own holiday.

Not a Secular Day of Service, nor a Day of Reason, nor Thomas Jefferson’s Birthday. A holiday dedicated to those who self-identify, positively-affirm, no dilly-dallying, proudly-state that they are capital-A Atheist. A day dedicated to letting the rest of society know just how numerous we are.

What would such a day look like?

Think Day of Silence - but with more talking. Some other suggestions to celebrate:

  • Skip church.
  • Come Out” to a friend or family member.
  • Wear that hilarious t-shirt you bought at AAI last year.
  • Volunteer at a soup kitchen.
  • Get together with other atheist friends and make a commotion at a local bar.

Atheists Etcetera (the backbone group of the Positively Non Religious blog) plan to celebrate our atheist-ness on August 1st (Sunday) of this year - one month from today - probably by Skyping together our Midwest and new Westcoast members.

Ultimately the idea is just to have a little fun, make a little noise, and remind the world that - in the words of Bill Maher-  ”we’re not the crazy ones”

Atheists vs. Fundamentalist Re: Creation Museum

  • After our April trip to the Creation Museum, I put a link to my blog post on Garrison's facebook wall (a link to that blog post is in the comments below). As it just so happens, Garrison's fundamentalist Christian sister read this post, and shared her thoughts. Here's the exchange that followed.
  • Paula: Unfortunately, you have no interest in making sense of who God is and why He does what He does. In reference to your thoughts on His doings to Noah and family/friends; He's the Heavenly Father who just like earthly parents, after many warnings and scoldings can't do anything but punish His children. He warns us over and over again that punishment will come for those who do wrong, it's US who ignore HIM and decide to go with our own decisions thinking we know everything and how to run our lives. How can a creation know more than the Creator? BEFORE you automatically look at the "bad" God has done to his beloved children look at all the warnings He has given to the Israelites who CONTINUOUSLY disobeyed Him. Besides if He was so heartless, why would He give His beloved Son to die on the cross? P.S. There was no disease before Garden of Eden, it's after they had sinned disease was established, it's in the Bible, the book that never changes and where every book backs each other up.
  • Schmidt: I think punish is too soft of a word here. I was a rotten kid sometimes, but my parents never murdered me. And they created me. The idea that creating someone gives the creator the right to make endless, illogical demands and then abuse or threaten to abuse if not obeyed does not fly with me. It sounds like the actions of an egomaniac, no matter how omniscient or powerful that creator may be. No one knows God, nor can they. If there is a God, he has made himself so unknowable, so unreachable that it is in no way my fault if I simply choose to live my life according to my own demands. God is a negligent father. And the whole story of Jesus dying on the cross never really made sense to me. How does some guy (yes, even the son of God) getting crucified absolve me of my sins? Okay, I'm a pretty decent guy. I've never killed anyone or robbed anyone or beat anyone up, but what about serial killers? Does it absolve them too? There seems to be some questions of proportionality. If I were going to pick a religion, I would pick one with a better story than Christianity. I like the more fantastical ones with multiple-headed beings and gods of the sea and sky and so forth.
  • Tristan: I lol'ed.
  • Chris: And Schmidt serves up a delicious retort. Bravo, sir.
  • Shane: Good points Schmidt. I can't help but add my two cents. (1) God is like earthly parents? Okay, then. That would be like someone having 30 kids, realizing that all but one of them are brats, and deciding to throw the other 29 in the ocean to drown. That's not acceptable parenting, it's mass murder. (2) But God's alright because he did some good stuff? That would be like saying an abusive father (or husband, etc.) is actually a great guy because he bought you a new car, or paid for your college tuition, or bailed you out of jail, or whatever. That's not how any healthy relationship should work. Good deeds don't make atrocities go away, and nothing can atone for terrible atrocities. (3) If God existed and he were all-powerful, then why would he need to sacrifice himself to himself in order to change a rule he himself had made up? Schmidt is right -- this story doesn't make any rational sense anymore. It only made sense when it was new, and animal sacrifice was a common way of trying to get on gods' good sides. But it's the 21st century, and people should be smart enough to know that animal sacrifice is just a barbaric superstition. Same goes for demigod sacrifice. (4) If the Bible never changes, then why was there any need for the Council of Trent? Why does the Catholic Bible have more books than the Protestant Bible? What about the apocryphal books? Why are there new English translations of the Bible coming out all the time? (5) If everything in the Bible agrees with everything else, then how do you explain this: http://www.project-reason.org/gallery3/image/105/ or this: http://www.wordwiz72.com/bible.html#Contradictions ? (6) Of course I'm not interested in making excuses for God. Because there's no good reason to think that he's anything other than fictional. Same goes for Jesus. Along the same lines, I could criticize you for not trying to understand Krishna. Or Vishnu. Or Buddha. Or Thor. Or Zeus. Or Ba'al. Or Baphomet. You dismiss these and countless other gods without taking the time to try and understand them. Likewise, others dismiss your God and believe fully in their own. There's no difference, though -- they're all fiction.
  • Garrison: Paula, those replies were excellently written, and I have nothing to add. All I'm going to do is plead with you. I'm literally begging you, please answers the questions posed by Schmidt and Shane. These aren't questions these guys came up with just to pick on you. They're fundamental problems with your religion. Ones that have NEVER been satisfactorily answered. Please take the time to seriously answer. Don't tell us to just read the Bible. Don't give us the name of a Biblical scholar. Don't give us Biblical verses and rehearsed retorts that you've been taught. Give us in-depth thought and scientific evidence. Please. As it stands now, we don't have compelling reasons to believe what you believe. If someone gave me irrefutable proof that God exists, I'd have no choice but to believe in Him. And I think I speak for all intelligent atheists when I say that.
  • [She never replied.]