Positively Non-Religious

hatefulatheist:

So pulling out an idea that has been out there for a while to get people’s opinions on it. It was originally put forward by Richard Dawkin in The God Delusion. The idea of an anti-Pascal’s wager:

Suppose we grant that there is indeed some small chance that God exists. Nevertheless, it could be…

Also, given the thousands of gods and goddesses that people believe in or have believed in throughout history, atheism is a better bet, statistically speaking, since if you were to get to the afterlife and one of those thousands of other gods were in charge, they’d probably look upon you more favorably if you were a non-believer than if you avidly supported a rival deity.

Or, here’s a better one:

If the Christian God does exist, then he’s a cruel megalomaniac, and there’s no way I’d want to spend any amount of time in his kingdom, let alone an infinite amount of time.

Not that I believe either of these scenarios is plausible or likely to happen.  But if people are on the fence, and Pascal’s wager is their reason for holding on to some semblance of belief (which I’d imagine is a significant number of people … I’ve heard people openly express the view that they’d rather believe in God just in case he turns out to be real), then such reasons might dissuade them.  Or, if nothing else, cause them to reexamine their views.

Simply because I don’t know what comes after. Religious people have the cushion of Heaven or Hell. Atheists have the cushion of the ground they’re buried on or scattered upon.

I don’t have a cushion, because I don’t know. At this point, I’m open to anything.

But I don’t want to die.

I’m one of…

The fear of dying is something that’s universal to all human beings, and can have a strong impact on our thoughts, emotions, and behavior.  Without religion or a belief in the afterlife, though, there are still a great many things that a person concerned with their own mortality can look to for comfort.  Here’s text from an old post of mine that speaks directly to this issue:

***

The concept of a soul is one that still crosses my mind every now and then.  I think there’s some wisdom in the idea, but the religious version of the soul lumps together a lot of different things.  In order to figure out the truth of the matter — and what “soul” means to those of us who don’t believe in the supernatural — it’s necessary to deconstruct the concept, breaking it down into its core components.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, the “true self” is analogous in many ways to the soul.

“Soul” can also mean the spark of life that separates living things from inanimate matter.  This is a complex biological issue that’s well beyond my understanding, but I don’t doubt that it can be completely explained by natural processes. 

…

Last but certainly not least, there’s the matter of life after death.  One of the most appealing things about the religious idea of a soul is that it lets you think that you and everyone you love will live on forever, spending an eternity in a perfect place where everyone gets a mansion.

In reality, after you die, you’ll still continue to exist as a concept — an abstract, immaterial thing that’s remembered by those who knew and loved you:  your family, your friends, your loved ones, and some acquaintances.  Your works, your efforts, your creations and your alterations to the world will also influence those who live after you, including those who don’t remember you or have never met you.  Your memory and your influence can live on for many lifetimes.

And, in the most concrete of all the different forms of symbolic immortality, part of you will literally continue to live on in your descendants (or, if you have no descendants, in the descendants of your genetic relatives).  I don’t think I can put it any better than the Spanish poet Miguel Hernandez:

I do not love you alone:  I love you in your ancestors,
and in all who will descend from your womb tomorrow.
Because the human race has been given as my heritage
the child’s family will be the human race.

With love in our care, asleep and awake,
we will always be kissing in our deep child.
Kissing each other, our dead are kissing,
the first inhabitants of the world are kissing.

ellespeak:

Sure. Simply this: You have stated that you don’t believe in an after-life and that gods do not exist, correct? Well, if there is no after-life as the Atheist believes, then I, as a Christ follower who believes that there is a Heaven and a Hell, is in fact ‘safe’ since nothing will happen, correct?

Ok, now -I, as a Christ follower believes that (in summary) God created us, Adam & Eves’ decision separated us from God, a whole bunch of stuff happened in between, THEN »> He sent Himself to earth to Die on the Cross for our redemption so we would be reconciled to Him in relationship, and as we are reconciled to Him we go to Heaven with Him in the ‘after-life’. (btw, I apologize for the run-on sentence just then)

So…. If one does NOT ‘believe’ in God or that He exists, then in the after-life they simply cannot go to heaven. Why? Because in order to believe that there is a Heaven to go to, one must believe that whoever created it -exists. That means actually ‘believing’ IN God and that He exists. For an Atheist, God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell… they don’t exist, right? 

In other words, if I, as a Christ Follower is ‘right’, then I am, in fact -‘safe’. So, in my statement, I have not said, nor do I believe that Jesus/God damns anyone to hell.

Thank you for allowing me to share my ‘insight’. ;)

Thanks for the in-depth response.  But that’s still the same logic that I initially responded to.

You say that non-believers simply cannot go to heaven.  Yet you said here that Jesus doesn’t damn non-believers to hell.  If non-believers cannot go to heaven, then where would they go, if not hell?

The issue with this whole line of reasoning is that it makes many, many assumptions that simply don’t hold up to scrutiny.  I won’t address all of them (this link does a good job of that).  I will, however, speak to the most important one:

The only way to gain entrance to heaven is to believe in the God of the Christian Bible.

Like I said initially, if God refused to let good people into heaven just because they didn’t believe in him, then that would make him callous and cruel.  Therefore, I see no reason to want to spend an eternity with such a god.

To sum it up:

Dear Christian,

If you’re right, then God is either:

a)  cruel and unfair, so he’s not worth spending an eternity with, or

b)  he’s fair enough to see past my non-belief and admit me to heaven since I was a good person, or

c)  he’ll see that you only believed in him to try and get into heaven, which won’t be good enough for him, so neither of us will get into heaven, or

d)  he’s not the God of the Christian Bible, and he will not let any Christians into heaven.

If I’m right, then I’m living my life according to The Truth; I enjoy the good that I do for its own sake rather than doing it for any eternal rewards; and I’m spending my life putting time and energy into things that are real and truly matter, instead of working to gain admission into a make-believe afterlife.

<3 Shane

ellespeak:

Was never worried about anything. Don’t have to be. But thank you for your concern for me in that respect. It’s welcomed. I’m settled in my relationship with God and if you don’t believe the same way —it’s really ok. I never said that Jesus damned you to Hell, let’s just make that clear. No need to get worked up, we’re all friends here and can agree to disagree. Good night to you as well. ;) -Elle

Please enlighten me, then.  If you weren’t talking about issues of damnation and salvation as they pertain to yourself and to atheists, then what exactly did you mean by If you’re right, I’m safe. If I’m right, I’m still safe ?

ellespeak:

Thank you for your response & insight. Jesus will love you and does love you regardless, whether or not you choose to believe in Him or that He exists. Have a wonderful and blessed evening. Love, Elle

Sigh.

For your sake, dear believer, I hope you’re someday able to let go and stop worrying about whether or not you’re “safe.”  I hope you realize that Jesus wouldn’t damn anyone to hell if he truly loved them.  I hope you realize that hell is make-believe, Jesus is make-believe, and this means we’re all safe — no one ought to lose any sleep worrying about any of it.

Good night to you, too.